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I'm a 4 and my daughter is an 8. She is only 8 years old so she might evolve into another point but I doubt it. Everything is about power to her and when presented with a selection of wristbands with various messages on them like "love" or "friendship" she chose "strength. We get on very well generally, but I don't know how best to deal with conflicts. The other day she was really horrid to me and I said, OK then if you think I'm so laughable then you take your bath on your own (sometimes I sit with her and we chat). She came in after and I said you should just go to bed now, I'm not coming up. She looked at me and said "I know what you're trying to do? You're trying to make me feel bad and I'm not going to do it." Then she went up to bed on her own and that was that. I felt terrible that we went to be annoyed with each other but I don't know how to deal with the 8 personality. It's quite daunting.
Anyone else found any coping strategies with dealing with conflict with 8s?
Anyone else found any coping strategies with dealing with conflict with 8s?
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 2:36 PMRemember that when our power-struggles fail, we go to 5--to our heads, which of course gets us nowhere because where we *need* to go is to 2.
Although it seems like it, she can't stay in power-struggle space and head-space *all* the time, and eventually, she has to let down her guard and realize that she's lonely. Maybe during that moment of vulnerability, you can appeal to the part of her that recognizes that in heart-space is redemption...
The whole thing about "I've figured out your game, and it won't work" seems to me to be a classic blend of 8 stubbornness and 5 analysis.
But I dunno. I never raised kids. I was raised by a 1 mom, and at 46, I still have power struggles with her from time to time, even though I'm generally a high-functioning 8.
I'm a great fan of Dr. Phil, myself... He would say that you need to find a consequence that really is of consequence in her universe. Apparently time with you doesn't trump her need to be right, so you need to find something else to withhold or impose.
I doubt that she will evolve to another point. She sounds like a classic 8 to me.
Good luck!
I've always been fascinated with 4s, and have sometimes been mistaken for a 4. I think there's hope there for a really rich relationship.
I think it might be good for you to keep in mind that *your* direction of stress is 2--which I would guess presents itself as a tendency on your part to be too nice when the going gets tough. By that token, you would need to go to your gut (1), where of course your daughter, as an 8, lives.
I dunno. I feel like I'm rambling. I hope maybe I've lit some sparks that will produce some light for you. -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Fri, January 6, 2006 - 8:54 PMWow, very interesting. I am a 3. My mom was an 8 and I'm dateing an 8. Neither of which were or are very healthy 8s. I admire so much about that personality but it is such an aggressive one as well. I appreciate all the insight you have on the 8 personality Khry.
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sat, January 7, 2006 - 12:45 PMFinally a moment to post... Yes, thanks very much for your analysis. You're right I haven't found anything that does matter to her yet. I have a feeling that not being able to see her friends would do it so I'm going to try fighting power with power like you suggest.
She has so many of the great points of 8ness, like the high energy and she is a natural leader as well. I wonder how I can try to foster a deeper sense of humanity in her... I keep hoping she will get there as she gets older.
In the meantime though, if I go into 1 in dealing with these conflicts then I suppose I'm not letting it *get to me* and bring me down like a feeling type? Is this the idea? That I just steam on and don't show that she's got any power over me? It's so funny, one of her favourite games is play fighting with me because she loves it when I'm so strong and I throw her around. It's completely bizarre to a 4! -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 12:40 AMI am gratified to know that my thoughts were useful to you.
I don't remember from other threads... Do you know your Myers-Briggs type, or hers? I'm an ESTJ, very strong Extrover, and depriving me of friends would definitely have an impact on me; however, it could backfire if it stressed me out and sent me careening back to 5. *sigh*
I would guess, from the little I know of cognitive psychology, that her thinking at 8 or 9 isn't yet sophisticated enough for her to recognize the need for that deeper sense of humanity. Kids that age aren't necessarily abstract enough or forward-thinking enough to grasp the long-term results of their actions. Maybe involving her in some kind of volunteer work that gives her person-to-person contact, allowing her to witness immediately and directly the consequences of her generosity?
I'm just thinking off the top of my head here...
Hmmm. With the setup here I can't read your question *and* what I said before about you going to 1, but I may have meant something like focusing on "doing it right"--Ones are perfectionists--you may be able to distract yourself from dwelling on the impact on your emotions, yes. I probably meant something along the lines of going by the book and letting the chips fall where they may, not taking her reactions personally but judging your dealings with her against your personal best for fulfilling your goals as a parent, rather than judging your dealings with her against your personal feelings about whether or not you're a good person. The fact is that you're a good person.
Looking again at your question, the answer is yes, what you said. (Jeez, it took me how many hundreds of words to get myself around to the one-word answer???)
Oh, yes, 8s loooove strength! I think I speak for many of us when I say that a "Worthy Opponent" is a great find indeed, someone who won't cave in but will provide resistance to counterbalance us. If you topple when I lean against you, what fun is that??? Pfft! Who wants to play tug-of-war with you, you party pooper, if you just give in right away and go splashing into the mud without putting up a fight???
Fours revel in their uniqueness, isn't that the hallmark? By that token, it seems to me that the best way to focus on "perfection" would be to focus on "personal best."
Godz, I hope some of this makes some sense to you... -
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Unsu...
Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Wed, January 11, 2006 - 10:39 PMOh, I love this conversation.
My boss is an 8. She doesn't really like confict. Doesn't like to tell people when they've made a mistake or need to improve. But, when she does it, she loves when people come back with something. She HATES it when the person just says, "oh, yea, you are right. I'll work on it." Cracks me up cuz that's what I always do. I'm a 3.
Where to do 3's go during stress? -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sat, January 14, 2006 - 8:05 AMSounds like your boss drifts heavily toward her 9 wing.
I like it when people disagree with me, if they present it in a respectful way--if they present it disrespectfully, then I go into the notorious champion-of-the-downtrodden (I being the downtrodden at the moment, but symbolically for all the weak) mode.
According to the theory, Threes, under stress, tend to go to Nine themselves. I kind of stockpile a cache of catch phrases for the different types because it's all so complicated. Normally, I think of Nines in terms of "Don't rock the boat," or "Why can't we all just get along?", but in the case of going to 9 under stress, I might characterize the motivation as, "When trouble strikes--vanish!"
Does that ring true for you?
The theory says that the direction of stress is also a direction of disintegration--it's the easy way out, the comfortable way, but ultimately not a way out: our directions of stress actually dig us in deeper.
The direction of integration--of salvation or redemption, if you'll allow the religious terminology--for 3s is to go to 6. The keywords I think of for 6 are "gatekeepr" and "guardian." I'm pretty weak on the theory of the 3-6-9 triangle, so please, somebody, help me out if I'm off-base here.
But if memory serves, the antidote to abdicating a position would be to fortify it. So if as a 3 you'd like with all your heart to abandon the troops when the going gets tough, perhaps it would behoove you to jump in and provide backup for those who are on the front lines... which, I would venture, would mean the Sixes and/or the Eights...
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sat, January 28, 2006 - 10:00 AMIt makes a lot of sense to me. I have been trying these strategies and, actually, my best mate is an 8 and the same approach is the right one in dealing with her. I love her 8ness because her strength rubs off on me, but it's often a bit scary too because her opinions are so strong and her sense of how things should be so intense. I worry that she will always bulldoze over my wishes because that is what she does. On the other hand however, she would do anything for me and you really feel that she appreciates you being there. My daughter is the same, she is so demanding and strongwilled but then she'll say 'I feel sad when you're not with me'.
I'm an INFP - don't know what she is but she is definitely a very strong Extrovert as well. I've tried the friends depriving and I think it worked! -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sun, January 29, 2006 - 9:40 PMI once read on a web site (I have no idea any more where it was or if it even exists any more) where they tracked correspondences between Enneagram and M-B types. They said, and I believe them, that most Eights tend to be ESTJs and ENTJs. (I'm an ESTJ.) -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Mon, January 30, 2006 - 2:42 PMI think my daughter is an ExTJ where x is still unknown to me. My best mate is ESTJ I think. I love this cross-over stuff. -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Mon, July 3, 2006 - 8:15 AMI really don't know anything much, but as a school teacher of nine/ten year olds, I can say they are generally pretty hard to type at this age. There is so much before them, on the threshold of puberty and all. They will show tendencies,a dn we would like to understand children better, but....
I tried to type my 15 year old, and even then we figured, wait a second here. Let life unfold a bit more before any lables are applied. Just love them and let them grow and evolve... -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sun, August 13, 2006 - 9:06 AMI agree totally with you that her personality could shift entirely in a couple of years. Especially with the advent of puberty which will shake everything up. Children also lose a great deal of confidence when making the transition from primary school to secondary here in the UK. It's on the government's agenda to look at ways to stop that happening.
My mother is a developmental psychologist and she's big into the Enneagram as well. She actually thinks my daughter will remain an 8 but I agree with you that we'll just have to see. In the meantime it has given me some new ideas to try to deal with our conflicts. Sometimes if you feel like you've got a strategy you feel more in control of the situation and less worn down by it. So long as you are flexible enough to see where it's working and where it's not. -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Fri, June 29, 2007 - 11:34 AMI agree with your mother. And that wondeful guy even confirmed that your daughter is a type 8, just like your mother did. Did your mother tell you that children's personalities are developed by the age of 4 or 5, according to Dr. Freud. She is who she is, and it is best to love and accept her for who she is because that type 8 personality isn't going anywhere.
The best thing I would tell you is share who you are with her, including doing volunteer work... connecting her 8ness to type 2. Do you know about the wonderful type 8s who have positively impact our culture? Dr. King Jr., Dr. Phil, and countless others! Did you know Dr. Phil does humanitarian work beyond what he does on his show?
It is best to have serenity and accept that she is a type 8 and embrace who she is. I believe as long as you are honest with her and never betray her trust, you will do fine. As long as you don't try to break her will, disrespecting who she is, you will do fine. My mother and cousin made the horrible mistake of trying to break my brother's will, and it just made him meaner and meaner to the point he became a bully and a criminal. He started to his bullying when he was in elementary school. They start locking him up in detention centers type of places at the age of 12.
My mother is a type 8 also, and she left home at the age of 13 to get away from the abuse of working hard and having her money taken away from her. They tried to break her, and she left home and escaped. She has helped a lot of people throughout her lifetime.
There are books on Enneagram and parenting out there that may be helpful with your journey with your type 8 kid. Let me ask you something, were you were personality when you were 8 years old and shifted into a type 4 as an adult? I was always a 9, but what has changed is that I have regained the will that was once was brokened by the type 8s in my family. They don't value weakness in people. I show my mother and bully cousin that I have back bone, and they respect me more because of it. Stand up to her when you need to. :o)
I don't claim to be an expert on type 8s, but I can only share what I have observed and read.
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sat, December 23, 2006 - 6:15 PMwhat does crossover mean?
thanks sina
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Tue, December 26, 2006 - 11:07 AMi am 8 and ENFP
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Mon, December 25, 2006 - 5:10 PMhow can i find out my myers-briggs type without to pay?
thanks for some links , sina
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sat, December 23, 2006 - 6:13 PMI am an 8. I think 4s are rather controlling and 8ths hate to be controlled.
What is so wrong with choosing strength?
A lot of people use the words love and friendship and don´t even know what they mean.
Those words are basically meaningless and pointless.
When she chooses "strength" she shows her unique personality already.
I think this age is generally very difficult and probably a psychotherapeutical support group to cut your´s or her biases
in dealing with each other would be better than trying to figure out enneagram issues.
Just my five cents :-)
have a nice day
sina -
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Sun, April 29, 2007 - 10:26 AMHaven't checked in here for awhile so apologies for very long delay!
I don't think I need to take her to a professional or anything, she's a good kid and doing well, it was more about whether I could learn from anyone else's experiences. I'm not trying to control her, actually I am probably too permissive as a parent but that isn't our problem. Things have improved. She has had a good report at school which is great though the teacher said she's probably the only kid in the school who doesn't fear the head teacher. She said 'she'll probably go far in life!' I don't doubt it, she really is strong and her peers look up to her. I just want nurture the humanity as well as the strength and I struggle with that... Perhaps when she gets a bit older that will come.
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Re: anyone have a type 8 kid?
Fri, June 29, 2007 - 1:07 PMAngel,
It sounds like you are doing a good job being her parent! Continue to be the role model that you wish for her to emulate within her own type. I hope this is helpful to you but here is some comprehensive information on type 8s! www.enneagraminstitute.com/exte...e.asp Please share what you discovered from this link. I am curious to learn fromyour experiences, insights and observations.
Eights can be wonderful leaders... look what Dr. King Jr. did working towards human rights. Chrissie Hynde was an activist for animal rights. Toni Morrison was the first African American woman to receive the Nobel Prize for Literature (1993). Toni Morrison taught at Yale in 1976 and 1977.
Chrissie Hynde - animalliberationfront.com/Saint...de.htm
Toni Morrison - womenshistory.about.com/od/ton...son.htm
Barbara Walters - womenshistory.about.com/od/tel...ers.htm
Ann Richards - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Richards
Sigourney Weaver - www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi
Angel, I know you can handle your type 8 child with love and understanding. Hey, you both are reactionaries, so that is a good thing. :o)
Flower type 9w8 with some 1 also. :o)
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